May 17th, 2005, evening. First phone call with Murphy

This is the first phone call between Murphy and Grewal. It is after the emergency Conservative caucus meeting of the 17th.

May 17, 2005: Harper learns of Grewal's tapes

In a story about reactions to the Grewal affair, the Hill Times reports:

Mr. Harper in a scrum after a caucus meeting on June 1 told the reporters that he became aware of the existence of the tapes on Tuesday, May 17 when he had a telephone conversation with Mr. Grewal. According to the dates of the tapes released, Mr. Grewal kept on recording the conversations with the senior Liberals on May 17, 18 and 19.

Geoff Norquay, director of communications to Mr. Harper last week refused to comment whether Mr. Grewal had permission from his leader to record those conversations after he was informed on May 17.

"No comment,"said Mr. Norquay.

May 17, 2005: Conservative reaction to Stronach's defection

Copyright 2005 CTV Television, Inc.
CTV Television, Inc.
SHOW: CTV NEWS
May 17, 2005, Tuesday 23:00:00 - 23:30:00 Eastern Time
LENGTH: 479 words

HEADLINE: Reaction from Conservatives over Stronach's defection

ANCHOR: LLOYD ROBERTSON

BODY:

LLOYD ROBERTSON: Now, after the initial shock wore off, the harsh
reality to set in, triggering a storm of furious reaction from Conservatives. It
was visceral and personal. Rounding up reaction in Ottawa and elsewhere
tonight, CTV's Roger Smith.

ROGER SMITH [Reporter]: What else to do when you've just been stabbed in
the back? Stephen Harper pulled out the knife and used it himself, saying
Belinda Stronach only jumped because she couldn't be leader.

STEPHEN HARPER [Conservative Leader]: There's no grand principles involved
in this switch of decision, just ambition.

SMITH: While the defection hurts Harper's chance of forcing an election,
Stronach's attack may also hurt his hopes of winning one by reinforcing doubts
about his leadership. But Tories say no, the real story is Liberal desperation.

PIERRE POILIEVRE [Conservative Ontario]: It has everything to do with the
fact she was offered a plum job, and Paul Martin is using any bribe he can to
hold on to power.

SMITH: As Stronach climbed into her new ministerial car, there was Liberal
glee.

ANNE MCLELLAN [Deputy Prime Minister]: I think it's good for her, for her, I
think it's good for us, I think it's good for the country. And you know what,
madam, she has great shoes.

SMITH: And Tory anger.

JAMES MOORE [Conservative - British Columbia]: I think it shows there are
two kinds of people in public life. People of principle and people like Belinda
Stronach.

VIC TOEWS [Conservative - Manitoba]: Well I guess even billionaires have
their price.

SMITH: Blonde ambition and betrayal, her critics call it. Voting to topple the
government one week and signing on the next. Sitting in on a weekend
strategy session even as she negotiated her departure.

TONY ABBOTT [Conservative MLA]: To me what it is, it's a little rich girl who
is basically whoring herself out to the Liberals.

CLINT DUNFORD [Conservative MLA]: Can I say "pissed off" on television?
I'm pissed off.

SMITH: Harper, too, stepped up the attack.

HARPER: I've never really noticed complexity to be Belinda's strong point.

SMITH: In Stronach's riding, while some are still behind her...

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: She's always said that the budget was good for
Canada, so I feel she's made the right decision.

SMITH: More, it seems, are not.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Forget it. I hope she gets thrashed in the next election.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It's a betrayal as far as I'm concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I think she's a Judas.

SMITH: After an emergency caucus meeting tonight, Conservatives vowed
they'll still try to topple the government on the second of two budget votes
Thursday. The Liberals, though, more confident now they can either survive
that vote or win the election if that's what it comes to. Lloyd.

ROBERTSON: Thank you, Roger. CTV's Roger Smith.

May 17, 2005, pm: first phone-call between Dosanjh and Grewal

This is the first phone call recorded between Dosanjh and Grewal. It clearly comes after Grewal's meeting with Dosanjh and Murphy: it revisits several issues from that meeting such as how clear a 'deal' will be and the possibility of an apology from Volpe.

Here is the final transcript as published by the Conservatives.

Here is my transcript. Yellow marks words that are in the June 7th transcript, but absent in the May 31st tape. In red are words that I can hear that are not in either transcript.

GG [How're you? ]

UD [Are you alone?]

GG [Yeah, I'm alone now, we can talk. Earlier, I was busy with representatives of] small businesses.

UD [Tim told me to call.] I think, as I said earlier, no Prime Minister would ever want to compromise himself with that kind of, appropriate um approach, um, because he want to be able to say, you know, 'I didn't make a deal with anybody, there was no deal'. You came and we accepted you, if that happens. If we did show there was an offer, and you want to be able to say that honestly. That's why I was suggesting to you, what I was suggesting to you. And that was the uh, uh, that was the difficulty that Tim had.

GG OK

UD And, and you saw that. And I, and I think that, that you know, from my perspective, I told you that's the way about how my conversation went with the Prime Minister about when I came. You know it's what happened with Scott Brison, he essentially came as a back bencher, and, and stayed a back bencher, then was Parliamentary Secretary.

GG No, no, he came directly.

UD No, not in the Cabinet, not in the Cabinet.

GG Ah, that's right.

UD He was made a became the Prime Minister's Parliamentary Secretary.

GG Uh huh.

UD But then, that's a conversation for Tim, and you know that's how the deals are made these things happen. I think I just wanted to call you that to let you know, um, um. You should talk to me and Tim tonight, um, um, you want to be up there without the intent. (inaudible) You know that's one the things; that's how it is. So I think that you need to seriously think about the understanding of how these things happen and that it is a matter of trust and it's a matter of the Prime Minister being able to appropriate these positions when the time is right.

(Inaudible)

UD Prime Minister is never going to say to you that I'll give you X and go say that I never said that. He has to have, you have to be able to say that I did not make a deal. That's very important. That's why these kinds of deals are not made in that, in that fashion. Um, so, if, if you think about it, if, if, if you think it is appropriate, what we're preparing to do, give me a call, you have my cell right?

GG Yes

UD My cell number — usually I have it with me, but I have …

GG (inaudible: 8 seconds)

UD The understanding has to be one, together. And, and, then, and if there is an understanding that then Volpe would happen before you speak. OK? Um, Volpe won't be difficult. The ethics commissioner, there is nothing we can do. It is an independent thing. (inaudible: 5 seconds) we can then … we can … get Volpe to talk to you and we'll try to prevail upon him. I'm obviously unable (inaudible) understanding, right?

GG [We want to talk with goodwill, it is stumbling block that should be out of the way irrespective of what we do.]

UD Volpe, will talk with him, but it will be a package deal, it has become part of the big thing. And, and, it has to happen. Because, the understanding has to be based (inaudible). Understanding is there then we will prevail upon, will try and prevail upon budget day what's his name … Volpe … [goes out and say, well we will talk with him. It will be a package.] I mean, he might say look I'm right and you guys are wrong, right, but we will have to persuade him. (laughs) Right.

GG [Whatever Ethics Commissioner is doing, let the Ethics Commissioner] handle it. [But whatever he said wrong, he created the mess deliberately.]

UD [I can understand you views, xxx xxx xxx] if we did not rest of the discussion, then I could have talked to Volpe, now as we are engaged in the this is part of a larger discussion, until we reach an understanding, [how can the Prime Minister care about it his issue]. All this is package of understanding, it will have to be all together. If it is all together, and if we then succeed in getting direction a retraction from Joe, then you proceed with your end of it, do you follow? (parts of Punjabi inaudible)

Yes. OK we will see, thank you bye bye.